Posted: 21 August 2005 at 2:19am | IP Logged

Does Robert predate William Pakes?

I have William Samuel Pakes, b. abt 1807 London to William and Marina Abraham

William snr. b. 1779 Filgrave, Buckingham -our line .

William Sam. b. abt 1807 was tried in London at 18 of robbery and arrived in Sydney as a felon on 'Albion 3' in 1828. He was described as a 'plaister's boy' and lived in Parramatta St ( 1841 census) Alexandria. He married Ann Crowley/ Connolly and they had no children.

He was joined in Sydney in 1855 by brothers Vincent b. abt 1803- my line- and James b. abt 1805- father of George and wife Eliza. The only Robert Pakes I have is one in Filgrave 1815.

Regards Dorothy Cooper.

Posted: 21 August 2005 at 7:57am | IP Logged

The answer is probably 'yes'.

Like you my 'verified' records only go back to William Pakes and Marina Abraham.

However I also have papers linking William Pakes (b. 1779 in Filgrave) with parents Samuel Pakes (b. Filgrave 1749) and Elizabeth, and their children, Martha (b. 1774), John (b. 1775), James (b. 1777), William (b. 1779) and Sarah (b. 1781).

Samuel snr's. parents are given as Robert Pakes and Mary Old. It is possible they had another child, John (b. 1731). The gap between John and Samuel is 18 years, which suggests other sibblings.

I would certainly be interested in more detail surrounding William Samuel's conviction and journey on 'Albion 3'. Sounds fascinating (for us as researchers that is, probably not for William S!

Posted: 22 August 2005 at 8:39am | IP Logged

Hullo again,   Re William Samuel Pakes

Born abt. 1807 London. Tried London 1826 at 18 for robbery- 2 other convictions.- he could R/W, was protestant and single. William was transported as a convict 1827 'Albion' 3 from Sheerness. He was a plaister's boy - plasterer : the family trade., had brown hair, grey eyes, 4'10" tall, pitted face, chronic sore eyes. On arrival in PJ. he was disposed to work for Edward Hunt in Sydney town. He married Ann Crowley/ Connolly 1835- she was also a convict.No children found.Lived in Parramatta St. Sydney in house of brick, finished and had 2 boarders- both convicts. In 1835 was called a dealer and later a mechanic and artificier., 1844 dealer in confectionary.

*Ann Connolly on arrival in PJ was assigned to him- she had arrived in 1832 and married felon Michael Connolly and when he died m. William.

Posted: 22 August 2005 at 8:49am | IP Logged

William Pakes and Marina Abraham m May 17 1802 St Peter and Paul, Olney

*Vincent b. May 17, 1803, plasterer, married Sophia Mays Apr. 15 1827 St. James Paddington, London 1851 census Son George V, plasterer, William, painter/ glazier.- Emig.1855 'Light of Age' after death of Sophia.

Elizabeth Marina b. 1828 m. William Barber- to NSW in dec 29 1855 sponsored by father Vincent.

*George Vincent Samuel Pakes b. abt 1830 m. Ann 1859- 6 children- remained in London

*William abt 1832 m Sarah Smith 1851 Marylebone, London

*John William b. abt 1837

Posted: 22 August 2005 at 8:54am | IP Logged

 and finally;

John william Pakes also came here 1855, possibly in steerage ( no records)-death cert in 1893 says he was 37 years in colony. Marrried Catherine McFarlane 1857 Scot's church, Sydney.- 10 little Pakes.

I have found that all the Pakes in NSW are descended from  either James Pakes ( father of George E and Eliza King) and Vincent.

There was another John Pakes here and he married- she died in a year and I am told he went 'bush' jackarooing and was not heard of again.   regards Dorothy- I am descended from Vincent and John William.

Posted: 25 August 2005 at 7:17am | IP Logged

Dorothy

Thank you for your last 3 Posts. I plan, over the next couple of weeks, to collate your information with my own. If anything of interest pops up I will let you know.

Murray

Posted: 26 August 2005 at 4:27am | IP Logged

Hullo again Murray,

William S was 4' 9 and a quarter not 4'10- so tiny!!!

Brother Vincent b. May 17, 1803, Olney m Sophia Mays St. James, Paddington, London Apr. 15 1827- children;-

*Elizabeth Marina b. June 1828 Kensington, London m. William Barber 1850 St. James, Paddington- came to Sydney 1856, sponsored by father. No children- son William died early.. on ship?

*George Vincent Samuel b. abt. 1830 m Ann,  Kensington- Joseph V.,George James 1862, John Robert 1864, Ann 1866, Henry 1868, Charles F. 1873,- all c. Paddington, Middlesex.

*William abt. 1832 m Sarah Smith 1851 Marylebone, London

*John William b. abt 1837 Middlesex ( painter)- my line. Died 1893, Newtown, Sydney of Apoplexy, married Catherine McFarlane , Apr 27, 1857 Scots church, Sydney.- children; Elizabeth Ann, Vincent George 1862 died 1906 when fell off ladder as housepainter U/M, Sophia Jessy 1864 m. Ernest Presdee,1890, Newtown, John William - my line,Catherine McFarlane b. 1869 m Horace Holmseby 1900, Ada Sarah 1871 m Fred. Presdee 1889 Sydney, Eliza Ann 1874, Florence Mary 1876, George H. 1882 and Mildred 1888- all Sydney.

regards Dorothy.

John William Pakes b. 1866 d. 1919, m emily Evans 1888 Newtown. Emily died 1894 from typhoid fever.- Emily C. bd. 1889, Irene Sarah 1891 my grandmother, my Charles L L Selby 1910 Sydney, Mildred b. 1892 m. John Selby.

Irene and Charles had 8 children,  the only girl being my mother Dorothy Mildred b. 1913 Sydney d. 1973

Posted: 26 August 2005 at 7:58am | IP Logged

Dorothy

Many thanks for all this fascinating data. I really need some time to digest and collate the information, so I think I'll close this thread and give myself some time to sort it all out.

Best regards Murray